Weston A. Price Foundation: shills and quacks

Veganism and vegetarinism are senseless when you consider predator-prey relations and when it comes to your need for omega-3s in balence with omega-3s. If you don't listen to me oh well, you will be infertile as a result. Soy is nutriution deficient and a scam.

By the way thanks for censoring the important things I have to say because I don't agree with you!

You're a jerk for not letting people even respond as to why price might have been right.

Gobsmacked ... just gobsmacked by the overweening arrogance and ignorance of vegan contributors here. Why do vegetarians call themselves "vegetarians" when they plainly have no great love of vegetables, but prefer grain and soy? Furthermore, why don't vegetarians expose their real agenda and refer to themselves, far more accurately, as "anti-carnivores"? A little honesty from the vegan/vegetarian ranks would be refreshing.

To "Shmeep" (who wrote back to Tom's very RUDE comments). Thank you for your original posting. I too attempted full veganism for 1.5 years in my mid twenties. No animal products of any kind. Mostly I followed the writings and diet plans of Dr. Ornish or that other guy, Dr. McDougall.

I had never felt more sickly and "out of sorts" than when I was eating in this manner, as I avoided everything that was not recommended on their vegan/super low fat checklist. I had adopted this diet for animal rights/ethical reasons, but for the well publicized "health" reasons as well (I took the latter to be the added bonus of superior HEALTH and vitality that would result from avoiding all animal/artery clogging fats!).

But I quickly realized that my health was simply going downhill after several months of eating this way. My energy levels crashed. I exercised but never seemed to have enough energy to keep up with the daily routines and I was always hungry. My total cholesterol level went down to 120 and my doctor was wondering what I was up to. I told him that I was simply avoiding any and all animal products.

One day, after a very long bike ride, I became very dizzy from what seemed to be complete and total exhaustion. My highschool friend, who is a pediatrician and was visiting that day, kept asking "what's wrong with you?". Almost a year and a half into my vegan existence, I was thin but totally out of energy. I was always in a type of perpetual brain-fog and could never think clearly.

My friend, concerned at what she was seeing and knowing that I was subsiting on tomatoes, carrots, boiled greens and starchy vegetables or boiled beans, told me "enough already". She went into the kitchen and scrambled up an egg with a small pat of butter. (I was the only vegan in the household, so there WERE animal products, like eggs in the fridge!)

She put the plate down in front of me and said to me, "please just eat this". I told her that I hadn't eaten anything from an animal in well over a year and she told me in an ironic tone, "yes, and I can see the wonders it is doing for your health". The cooked egg sat there for a couple minutes and then I said to myself, 'what the heck'. Within a couple minutes of eating it, I felt much better and the dizzy spell went away.

The next day, I ate a piece of fish that had been cooked up by my aunt, that was as fresh as can be. We lived in a seaside town in Greece and the fresh fish was always available. After eating the fish with a wonderful cucumber side salad, I noted again how much better I was starting to feel after eating this type of food. It was on this second day that I decided to never look back on my attempt at veganism.

Once I reintroduced some animal proteins in the form of some fish and dairy products (mostly pastured eggs and the occasional batch of raw milk) things just immediately turned back around. My energy came right back. Coincidence? Who knows.

In the many years that have transpired since returning to a more omnivore type of diet, I've never felt better and my health is perfectly fine. No more fatigue or those really scary dizzy spells. I have energy to maintain my exercise routine and to chase after 3 very active little kids. My total cholesterol has since bumped up to the 170s but I don't have an irrational fear anymore of these numbers either. Yes, I admit to having read the Good Calories/Bad Calories book. Cholesterol is something our bodies and our brains actually NEED.

I have come to terms with returning to the consumption of meat products by visiting and purchasing only from the biodynamic and sustainable local farmers in my area. I will not purchase any factory farmed, grocery store type of fare.

I've read the writings on both sides of this issue [and all the stuff in between] and have come to my own conclusions. I know what works for me and feel everyone needs to be free to make their own choices: good or bad. The guy who was tongue-lashed (above) by you, Mr. Tom RUDErson, knows what works for him and put forth a very thought provoking post. Tom, you too, know what works for you, but as another writer mentioned higher up in the postings, unless you, TOM, can stop yourself from breathing (and subsequently killing off thousands of tiny microbes) then you have to realize too that all life revolves around the constant cycle of life and death that takes place on this planet all the time.

People don't need to be bullied about the way Tom likes to do on this blog. I believe he will not get far in his ultimate goal of saving the animals from their terrible suffering using his ugly bully tactics and harsh/offensive language. He could go a long way by looking into the ethics behind the more humane farming practices of the smaller family farms, because it is a far better living existence for these animals. People are never going to stop eating meat. It goes back to the days of the cave man.

I read this entire page here today and am pretty horrified at the disrespectful approach Mr. Tom takes toward the meat-eating readers of his blog. He seems full of hate, venom, and dispair.

Good luck Tom, no one is standing in the way of your veganism or vegetarianism, but your mean spirited approach and hateful tactics in your writings gives vegetarians a bad name.

So get your butcher knife sharpened and ready, Tom, and start slicing and dicing my latest post here. For someone who purports to be such a humane pacifist, you sure are one scary dude (who talks about killing people and grabbing their organs to put into coolers etc...) You are guilty of the same hateful and murderous thoughts you assign to all the people out there who eat meat (something that has been taking place for millenia, as you know).

I came to this site because I couldn't find what I wanted on WAPF. At a recent community fair, photos were displayed of people with elongated heads (several photos looked deliberately distorted) and the contention was made that they were that way because of processed foods. They were characterized as ill and "mouth-breathers." Other photos showed people with rounder heads and big smiles -- purportedly eaters of raw milk and additive-free foods.

I'd like to know:

Where did these photos come from? Did someone actually do a study of people brought up on different foods? Is there any way to determine a) how many have elongated heads, b) is there an unusual percentage among those of a certain diet, c) whether their diet or other causes like heredity determined their head shape d) whether that head shape is in fact any sort of diability? (Not counting anyone's aesthetic preferences for round or long faces.)

And why get worked up about it if there's nothing we can do?

You people are insane, all legumes are toxic if eaten raw. I once ate lightly cooked soy beans and got terribly ill. THAT'S TOXICITY. But cooked soy beans are healthy.

I ate a raw vegan diet for four years. I felt good initially and finally became sick from nutrient deficiency. Eat the way you wish and let others do the same without your vegan diatribe. WAPF promotes private, small dairy farms. How are they making money by promoting raw milk (unlike raw gurus who sell warehouses full of goods)? I know soy isn't good for thyroid unless it's fermented. Even vegan websites will tell you that!

"Consumption of dairy products was unknown for most of the existence of the human species, it began only with the Neolithic revolution. It cames common only in some cultures, and only became a mainstay fairly recently. No other mammal on the planet drinks milk into adulthood, and no other mammal drinks the milk of other species."

---- When milk consumption "appeared on the scene" and the "argument that {dairy consumption is an ancient and traditional} is specious" is irrelevant in light of the fact that milk IS THE ONLY FOOD IN NATURE that is specifically intended to be food for mammals. The substance that we are exclusively fed during the formative period of infancy (a time when we are growing and developing relatively greater in terms of mass and speed than any other time in our lives) is not beneficial to our health? You can split hairs by pointing out that Cow's milk is not Mother's milk but they are still simply variations of the same food.

Tens if not Hundreds of Thousand of people around the world can attest to improvements in their health related to the consumption of foods like raw milk, and other naturally farmed animal products. Probably just as many former vegetarians can attest to the negative effects that excluding animal products from their diet produced. Those numbers are obviously being pulled out of thin air, but I personally know a great number of individuals who fall into both categories.

Consult scientific data and your own food history research all you like; when it comes to practical, personal, real world, and applied observations about the debate which I have taken from my first hand experience and those of my friends and family, the WAP stance takes the cake in my little corner of the universe.

the WESTON A. PRICE FOUNDATION has saved my life.......i was a very sickly person, depressed, feeling lethargic, skin problems, high blood pressure, digestion problems...... depending on pharmaceuticals to "cure" me.......it was a "process"...eating healthier.... unprocessed foods, HEALTHY FATS...animal protein.....and i also elIminated dairy (raw or goats milk products only).....AND NOW I FEEL GREAT, LOOK GREAT AND GETTING ALL SORTS OF COMPLEMENTS ABOUT WHAT I DID BECAUSE OF MY DRASTIC CHANGE IN APPEARANCE (I AM OVER 50 AND DON'T LOOK ANYWHERE NEAR IT!!!!).......WESTIN A. PRICE FOUNDATION taught me how to be aware of how what i put in my mouth affected your health.......YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT....and over a period of 2 years i am not on any more "pharmaceuticals".....THE BEST PART IS MY KIDS SAW THE TRANSFORMATION AND I DON'T NEED TO LECTURE THEM TO EAT ANY PARTICULAR WAY....THEY COPY MY DIET.......SO, "BEFORE YOU SLAM WHAT YOU DON'T BOTHER TO FULLY EDUCATE YOURSELF ON" or choose to believe all the "myths" our FDA wants us to believe without scientific evidence..(protecting BIG PHARMA and BIG FOOD MANUFACTURERS OUT TO MAKE A PROFIT REGARDLESS OF HEALTH)...DON'T MAKE ANY UNINFORMED DECISIONS YET....GO TO ONE OF THESE PRICE FOUNDATION SEMINARS....THEY EDUCATE YOU WITH FACTS AND SCIENTIFIC INFO, YOU CAN TRY VARIOUS FOODS THEY PROMOTE BUT MOST OF ALL YOU WILL ACTUALLY TALK TO HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED OR THEIR CHILDREN'S LIVES FOR THE BEST......STORIES OF THEIR KIDS DOING MUCH BETTER WHEN REAL DOCTORS DIDN'T HAVE ANYMORE ANSWERS....IT IS AMAZING...PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE GOING TO THESE SEMINARS WHEN NOTHING ELSE HAS WORKED FOR THEM....I HAVE NEVER MET ANYONE WITH A NEGATIVE RESULT.......ONCE YOU DO THAT...I THINK YOU WILL BE PLEASANTLY ENLIGHTENED AS WELL......P.S. - I ALSO BELIEVE THE FAT AND CHOLESTEROL SCARE IS DUE TO UNHEALTHY PROCESSED FATS AND VEGETABLE OILS (INCLUDING "CONVENTIONAL" ANIMAL FATS, TRANSFATS, ETC.) AND TOO MANY PROCESSED GRAINS AND SUGAR!!!!!!!!! IMPROPER BALANCES OF OMEGA 6/3.... OUR DIET IS FULL OF SUGAR (TURNING INTO FAT IN OUR ARTERIES)....IT'S EASIER FOR THE FDA TO SLAM HEALTHY FATS AND WESTON PRICE!!!!! (IT'S MORE "PROFITABLE" FOR THEM!!!!!)

"which according to our best scientific knowledge is linked to a higher risk of heart disease and stroke."

That is completely false. In fact there is not one single study proving this, but proving the exact opposite.

It was part of a vegetarian agenda to tell us all that saturated fats were bad.

I agree, it is something that is suspect with the WAPF.

// Kalorier

I had never heard of WAPF before I received a pamphlet in the mail from my brother-in-law. He is studying to be a chiropractor and he and his wife have taken it on themselves to enlighten the rest of the family about what they are studying. I usually listen politely to what they have to say and make my own choices. I have always leaned towards vegetarianism. I am not a vegetarian, but I have seen how much my sister has benefited from a vegan diet and have drastically cut the amount of dairy and meat that I consume. I am sure that one day I will take the plunge and become vegan myself. In any case, my vegetarian leanings and consumption of soy products have made my brother and sister in law completely crazy. It is so bad that they will not talk to me because I offended them by not cutting soy from my diet. When my baby was born at a healthy 9 1/2 pounds, they told me that she was so big that she was headed to the Jerry Springer show and it was because I ate soy products when I was pregnant. They are so zealous in their belief that we should eat meat and dairy that they started feeding meat to their own child when he was less than 6 months old ("we eat it, why shouldn't he?"). When my mother in law's cholesterol topped 300 and her doctor wanted to put her on statins, they convinced her to instead eat more eggs, bacon and cheese at every meal! Of course, she took their advise, I think she was afraid to insult them. Now she carries around baggies of cubed pork and cheese for her snacks. She won't even go back to her doctor to get her cholesterol checked since she started her new "diet".

Bottom line, to me, WAPF seems to be a cult to me and extremely dangerous. It reminds me of Scientology whose members shun family who do not adhere to the beliefs and promote dangerous medical treatments. There is no scientific evidence supporting their beliefs, I completely believe that it is a tool of the meat and dairy industry.

Lying is a full time job for Weston A Price Foundation----they are lobbyists.

I am amazed that throughout this entire list that everyone misses one of the most critical points to be made: The fact of the poor nutrition of processed foods. Food giants have engineered processed foods to perform more like drugs than food by skilled manipulation of fat, salt and sugar. They could care less about nutrition and that is why 2/3 of adults in this country are overweight or obese. They eat junk and the body calls for more nutrients to digest the junk. They eat more junk and.... you get the picture. Lots of empty calories.

Pure foods free of GMOs, pesticides, hormones, antibiotics and other synthetic poisons are vital to our bodies. When we ingest poisons the body uses nutrients to isolate those poisons. Often the metabolites from those poisons are more toxic than the originals substance.

What the Weston A. Price Foundation advocates a return to whole UNPROCESSED foods and “the foods of your ancestors”. They are what our bodies have adapted to. Obviously some foods aren’t readily available so we must substitute. But when you substitute you need to use foods similar in content. In any case, they must be nutrient rich. For any of you who don’t know any better, “nutrients” are not synonymous with “calories”. Fats and protein from grass fed animals will provide a wealth of nutrients beside just the fat and protein. Quality fruits, vegetables, grains, legumes and nuts are also vital to good health. Want to know the appropriate ratios of what to eat? Google “Luise Light” and learn her story of dismay as the FDA nutritionist charged with creating the food pyramid.

For those of you citing WAPF followers as “quacks”: I am a Weston Price Chapter leader. I have researched many of their claims and have yet to find legitimate evidence contrary to their claims. I suggest you won’t be able to either.

For those who refuse to consume “land based” animals: Who are you to draw the line between different living things (ie; fish and fowl?) If your personal convictions lead you to avoid meats then fine. Don’t indict everyone else.

For the soy advocates: It is nonsensical to believe that you will get any objective information from the industry. Research is sponsored by those with money. The ones with money and interest are big agribusiness. If a study indicates that their products are less than what they market them as, you will never see that study. That’s why studies on GMOs performed by the industry are 100% favorable and 90% of those performed by independent sources seriously question the safety of GMOs. (Take out the studies by the tainted FDA and that will be nearly 100%.)

Mr. Swiss - Re: “The idea that unfermented soy is poisonous is simply nonsense, as is your attempt to label vegetable oils as "new" or "plastic" – Do you know how modern oils are made? Enjoy the hexane (a known carcinogen) with your next dose of yummy modern oil. Clearly it is a toxin. Also, my small farm is humane, soon to be certified as such. The typical small farmer is MUCH more caring of his animals that the industrial megafarms. To argue otherwise shows you haven't been on many.

Inuits, who meat industry lobbyist like WAPF(ironically and misleadingly) use as an “example of health,” life expectancy is 43.5 years.

Not only that. All the fat they consume is "natural" and unprocessed and their 3rd leading cause of death(suicide is number 1) is ischemic heart disease. Sound familiar?

Inuits have the highest osteoporosis rates in the world!!!

You are basically the essence of a shill or quack and have no idea what you are talking about. Fermented soy is the only true healthful form of soy, even the Japanese know this and you know nothing of their dietary heritage. As far as Weston A. Price goes...if these people who believe they are eating soy for their health switch their soy habit for real milk they would live a much healthier life. I have a degree in this "quackary" and wish people like you would stop spreading such unfounded ideas. Also, if you want to talk $ let us look at the large paper trail between the government and the soy industry, ESPECIALLY the wonderful gmo soy they have blessed us with. OPEN YOUR EYES.

As far as soy products go, if we are going to truly consent to traditional diets, we can't forget that Asian populations are the ones who have traditionally consumed soy. For the sake of this argument, let's put aside whether or not it was fermented. Asians are, by now in our evolution, adapted to a diet that contains soy. Other ethnicities simply are not. Some ethnicities are not able to tolerate milk, but some absolutely need dairy to thrive because that is how their ancestors evolved and the conditions under which they progressed. If you are a white American, a black American, a Hispanic American (or European) then you will simply not be able to tolerate soy very well, certainly not in large quantities. Wouldn't it be best to research and discover what your own ancestors consumed (i.e. Scots and oats, Swiss and dairy, etc.) and follow that as closely as possible?

However, there is something to be said for soy as Asians consume it, regardless of what your racial/ethnic history is. Soy milk is not a traditional Asian food, and the same applies to most of the soy foods we consume in America.

If you do believe that soy is a sacred food we should consume, that's fine, I can accept that. But the way it is processed and denatured and put into just about everything you buy at the grocery store is an assault of your sacred food. Just as those of us who consider raw dairy from happy cows to be a sacred food that is assaulted by the pasteurization and homogenization processes. I know many vegetarians who do not eat meat for philosophical or religious reasons, and I respect their concern for life; it is inspirational even. But I personally keep my own livestock and I know that my animals are healthy and happy. We do not eat them, we enjoy the gifts they give, raw milk and pastured eggs. It would be cruel to our cows to refuse to milk; I remember weaning my own children, and how painful it was to be bursting with milk and no one to give it to. If we didn't milk the cows, they would suffer. If we didn't use the eggs that our free range chickens give us, the chickens would not be any better off for keeping them to themselves. You do not have to eat meat to keep livestock from suffering. We have never culled any of our chickens, and the hens are older than most (in commercial operations they only live for about a year and then they are no longer meeting the cost/benefit of what it costs to feed them) but even though they are "old" they are supplying us with a fertile, organic nitrogen-rich manure for our garden and they supply us with eggs. We don't eat the fertilized eggs, we let the hens hatch out new babies. Our entire farm operation is in perfect harmony with our vegetarian friends' ideals, and for that they are also able to partake of our farm with a free conscious. Cows are, at this point in our history, so domesticated that if they are not cared for by humans, they will die a very graphic and painful death, usually by starvation but likely also by being hunted by another predator. You can leave a horse out in the wild, and it will go feral and survive just fine. A cow cannot do that. Cows need humans. Perhaps that is a tragedy of our neolithic transition, but it is what it is. If you value life and the life of this species you will understand that they need to be cared for by people. It can be done in an ethical way. I had read of a 90 year old man who had a 30 year old cow and they were both still living together very happily, the cow supplying him with his daily milk and him caring for a cow who lived longer than most.

Anyway, that's my argument, I hope it has been respectful to everyone here. Thank you for taking the time to listen to a differing viewpoint.