vegan/B12.html

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From our old vegetarian information file archives. (Please note that web links inside this document may be broken.)

From mimsy!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet! axion!rtf.bt.co.uk!traub Wed Mar 4 13:55:17 EST 1992 Article: 15565 of rec.food.veg Path: mimsy!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet! axion!rtf.bt.co.uk!traub From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) Newsgroups: rec.food.veg Subject: Re: The rec.food.veg Most Frequently Asked Questions List Message-ID: <1992Mar3.162650.8075@rtf.bt.co.uk> Date: 3 Mar 92 16:26:50 GMT References: <1992Mar2.013712.1615@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Mar2. 084734.8279@rtf.bt.co.uk> <1992Mar2.211852.6643@clpd.kodak.com> Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK Lines: 87 In article <1992Mar2.211852.6643@clpd.kodak.com> young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes: >traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes: > >>So much for my posting regarding B12 creation in the intestine. It >>doesn't seem to have made it into the FAQ. I was also stupid enough to >>have not kept a copy of the article I laboriously typed in. Does anyone >>have a copy of the article that they can forward to the FAQ maintainer? > > Actually, bacteria in the intestines DO produce small quantities of > B12; the problem is that: > > 1. B12 won't be absorbed without the presence of "intrinsic > factor", a compound produced in the stomach, and, > > 2. the bacteria in the gut which produce this small quantity > of B12 exist too far along in the gut to permit > absorption...what they make, you excrete. > Rich what I hate most is the way you come out with these sorts of things as if they are known "truths". If you had bothered to read the original article you would have found reference to both the points you make. You would also find the author admits to not having suficient knowledge on the subject. You however manage to produce your above remarks without any sort of proof whatsoever but act as if you are the fountain of knowledge on this (and any other) subject. As far as I can make out the article seems to make a mockery of your second "absolute truth" regarding B12 absorption. Maybe if in future you could at least start off your articles along the lines of "as far as I know" rather than attempting to present them as some kind of oracle from on high. Thanks to another reader I have got the article back, I didn't intend to repost it but here it is for the benefit of Rich. ->Food for a Future by Jon Wynne-Tyson, published 1979 by Universe Books, ->381 Park Avenue South, New York, N. Y. 10016, U.S.A. -> ->pages 110-111, footnote page 114: -> ->It is interesting and possibly very relevant that lifelong vegans seldom ->suffer from B12 deficiency. Where deficiency has been established, it has ->been mostly in people who have switched, perhaps too abruptly, from a ->diet based on animal products. This has helped to prompt the suspicion ->that as children brought up from birth on a vegan diet are able to absorb ->the B12 made by the bacteria in their colons, it may be that the ->perversion of the body's chemistry through meat eating has made it ->impossible for a small number of people to switch to the more natural ->vegan diet later in life without showing signs of B12 deficiency. (2) -> ->This is not to say, of course, that symptoms due to inadequate intake of ->B12 are not to be found in malnourished people the world over, whether ->they are omnivorous or more selective in their eating habits. An ->inadequate diet will be deficient in a great many elements, whether or ->not meat is included. Although volumes have been written about B12, it is ->in our knowledge of man's adaptational abilities that we have far to go; ->the uncertainties surrounding a clearly inadequate intake (irrespective ->of absorptional capacity) are less in dispute. -> ->It is known that the bacteria in the human colon synthesise B12, but that ->in most cases this is not available for absorption by the large intestine ->because the absorption takes place in the lower end of the ileum (or ->small intestine). This absorption depends upon the presense of the ->'intrinsic factor', a protein-like substance produced in the stomach. In ->the case of pernicious anemia, for instance, this intrinsic factor is ->absent. There is some evidence that the large intestine of vegans can ->absorb B12 (Ellis, F.R.; Wokes, F., 'Vitamin B12', the Vegan, Winter ->1966/67) - a point that may well be given more prominence as research ->continues. -> ->(2) to put the horse more squarely before the cart, there is a good deal ->of support for the theory that man lost his ability to manage without ->dietary B12 when he took to meat eating, which caused the bacterium ->Escherichia coli to move further down his intestinal tract to beyond the ->point at which B12 could be absorbed (see A. G. Long and F. Wokjes, ->'Vitamins and Minerals in Plants', Plant Foods for Human Nutrition, Vol. ->1, No. 1, May 1968). The upward movement of the Escherichia, it may be, ->is encouraged by a return to that vegan pattern we abondoned. However, ->the inner reaches of our guts are not of universal fascination and most ->of us prefer to leave the problems of bacterial balance to the ->scientists. I must leave it to the relaly keen reader to explore for ->himself in greater depth. ------- Michael Traub BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk