usenet/Newt_wants_DRUG_LEGALIZATION_vo.html
From our archives of Tom's USENET posts. Some of these posts are over a decade old. The author may have mellowed with age since these were written, but the basic views remain. (Please note that web links inside this document may be broken.)
<![CDATA[From tms Tue Jul 25 11:21:02 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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ferch@pinn.net (ferch) writes:
> Well not quite guys,if he is so afraid of freedom,why suggest a vote?
>I think the citizens that will vote down legalization across the USA is the
>tyrany you fear. Putting it to a vote is highly fair and Democratic,and what
>this counrty stands for!
No. The United States is not a democracy. A democracy has no
protection for the rights of the minority. (As someone put it, two wolves
and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.)
The United States is a constitutional democratic republic. The powers
of government are sharply limited. The powers of the federal government
most definitely do not include the power to criminalize the use or
intra-state sale of certain psychoactive chemicals.
To put it as simply as I can: _you_ do not get to vote away _my_
freedoms.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
--George Carlin
From tms Tue Jul 25 11:29:43 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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ferch@pinn.net (ferch) writes:
> That ending has gotta go,it's getting old. For a clueless person,I
>sure am getting alot of good responces from people in the newsgroup
>talk.politics.drugs . I think if I was clueless,people would ignore me like
>you and others. As far as what the country was founded upon,I thought it was
>the thing about taxation without repersatation theroy. If you feel your cause
>is not repersented enough,speak to your Congressman,talk on radio,give
>lectures,picket,and try darn hard to change you so called "proabitionests"
>minds with facts,sauve,knowledge,and wit. GET A CLUE!
We're working on it. Which is why the movement for drug policy reform
keeps growing.
But Prohibition is big business. The legal drug industry, the law
enforcement and LE support industry, prision construction and operation (a
_booming_ business these days!)industry, drug "treatment" industry, and
politicians who use drugs as a conveniet scapegoat have a strong interest
in the status quo. There's more money in Prohibition than in legalization
for these folks, and as we all know the great principle on which American
government operates is "Money talks." (Actually, it SCREAMS!)
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
--George Carlin
From tms Wed Jul 26 12:57:13 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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ferch@pinn.net (ferch) writes:
> You have had 35 years since the sixties movements
More like 25 or 30 since marijuana began to be used by a large number
of Americans (late 60's), compared to 58 years (twice as long!) of
government lies about it - the Marijuana Tax Act was passed in 1937, with
testamony such as the following from Harry J. Anslinger:
"How many murders, suicides, robberies, criminal assaults, hold-ups,
burglaries, and deeds of maniacal insanity it [marijuana] causes each year,
especially among the young, can only be conjectured."
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes,
Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and
swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to
seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you
take Hofstadter's Law into account.
From tms Wed Aug 2 12:05:03 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>The people through the instrument of government can decide to set age
>limits for alcohol consumption. European democracies have chosen a
>slightly lower age limit than the US, but there is still limit.
"Slightly?" Isn't it something like 12 in Germany?
> This will
>cease to be a concern to you as you as you and your friends are all 21.
It didn't stop concerning me when I turned 21. I am concerned about
drinking age laws because they encourage alcohol abuse amoung teenagers,
and subject people who have done no harm to others to arrest. A sixteen
year old drinking a beer should not be a criminal.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
Finagle's first Law:
If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
From tms Mon Aug 7 12:23:39 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>: How many people choose to work in a chicken processing plant by
>: volition rather than desperation? How about McDonalds, or shoveling cow
>: manure in a dairy barn? (Both jobs I have had.) People do things they
>: would rather not do all the time. It's called working.
>
>I see a distinction between selling one's time and labor and selling
>one's body, however.
And while prostitution is often described as the latter, it is clearly
an example of the former.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
The Peter Principle:
People are promoted until they reach their level of incompetence.
From tms Mon Aug 7 14:35:11 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>Clifford A. Schaffer (schaffer@smartlink.net) wrote:
>: Actually, in Europe, where it is legal, the majority of them do choose
>: it by volition. The same is true in Nevada where it is legal.
>
>And what events in their lives persuaded them to make such a
>self-destructive choice?
On what basis do you claim that prostitution, in an environment where
it is legal and prostitutes are subject to the same protection as other
workers, is a "self-destructive choice?"
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
The Peter Principle:
People are promoted until they reach their level of incompetence.
From tms Wed Aug 9 13:11:30 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>: >I see a distinction between selling one's time and labor and selling
>: >one's body, however.
>
>: And while prostitution is often described as the latter, it is clearly
>: an example of the former.
>
>I find the callousness with which you regard the exploitation of women to
>be at odds with your .sig:
>
>: "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
How is it callous to point out that in is in no way, shape, or form
accurate to state that prostitutes sell their bodies? It certainly does not
encourage or sanction the exploitation of any person, something I've always
fought.
Prostitutes sell their time and labor, just as everyone else does;
they no more sell their bodies than a dockworker sells his, or than I sell
my brain by working as a software developer. Is prostitution the best way
to make a living? Probably not. Is it better than flipping burgers at
McDonalds? That's a choice for the individual to make. That's something we
like to call personal freedom.
In a perfect world, no one would have to hold either of these jobs.
We'd all have dream careers; I'd be a paid research subject at the
Institute for the Development of Hedonism, on a tropical beach with some
fancy rum drink and a beautiful woman and small teams of experts constantly
working on new ways to be nice to me. And we'd all have as many loving
partners as we want, and everyone would get exactly as much sex as they
wanted.
But as you may have noticed, ours is not a perfect world.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
-- Former Vice President Dan Quayle
From tms Thu Aug 10 11:30:56 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>There's a big difference between consensual sex and having to fork over X
>amount of money to a pimp to avoid abuse.
Which is a damn good reason to make it legal. Prostitutes working in
legal brothels don't get beatten up by pimps.
>My contention is that it is not really a "choice" for most women. It's
>what they do when they have no choices.
So are a lot of jobs. We don't make it illegal for women to work
sewing garments; we regulate the industry to attempt to prevent their
exploitation.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Fri Aug 11 11:11:09 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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susantre@aol.com (Susantre) writes:
>
>I wish all you sanctimonious men would answer my questions asked in a
>previous, suspiciously ignored post, i.e. Is this lovely "profession" you
>are all so respectful toward is something you might encourage your
>daughter or son to go into if it's legalized?
What in the world des that have to do with anything? I wouldn't
encourage my (hypothetical) children to become priests or nuns, either.
That doesn't mean I think that those who wish to do so should be punished
by law.
>Or is it just so WONDERFUL
>for OTHER people? Like you know Jenny, it's tough paying your college
>tuition for your Mom and I, you think you could spread 'em for every Tom
>Dick and Harry that walks in the door for a few months?
If my (hypothetical) son or daughter did, upon reaching adulthood,
decide that for whatever reason, they were going to become a prostitute,
I'd much rather that they be able to do so legally and not be subject to
abuse from johns (or janes?) or pimps.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Mon Aug 14 11:51:32 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>: Prostitutes sell their time and labor, just as everyone else does;
>: they no more sell their bodies than a dockworker sells his, or than I sell
>: my brain by working as a software developer. Is prostitution the best way
>: to make a living? Probably not. Is it better than flipping burgers at
>: McDonalds? That's a choice for the individual to make. That's something we
>: like to call personal freedom.
>
>What if your daughter is making the choice between flipping burgers or
>becoming a prostitute? Does the thought make you feel a little queasy?
>Pay attention to that feeling. It's telling you something.
I might. (I'd hope she'd have much better choices than either of
these.) I'd also feel queasy if my hypothetical daughter became a devout
Southern Baptist. That has absolutely no bearing on whether either should
be legal. "I don't like it" in no way implies "People who do it should be
locked in cages."
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Mon Aug 14 12:08:10 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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susantre@aol.com (Susantre) writes:
>To descibe a child's spreading their legs or bending over for every Tom
>Dick and Harry or even every egomaniacal movie star and their buddies as a
>choice they make that maybe I wouldn't like but I'd rather they do it in a
>nice clean antiseptic place etc is in my mind incomprehensible.
Who's mentioned children? This entire discussion has been about
competent adults.
>I believe there can be honor in all work, but I can't see it in
>prostitution.
Bully for you. I can't see it in personl injury lawyers. I wouldn't
enocourage anyone to go into either field.
That has nothing to do with the fact that people who make their living
by either of these means should not be locked in cages for doing so. Nor
should their customers.
>And yes I for one would much rather have a son that is a garbageman than
>one who bends over or even is a high-priced houseboy for rich homosexuals.
Again, bully for you. But what would you do if your adult son
announced that he did, for whatever bizarre reason, want to be a homosexual
prostitute? Or a heterosexual one, for that matter; let's not pretend that
there aren't women who'll pay for sex.
>I also cannot comprehend the connection which keeps coming up between
>casual sex, enjoying sex and prostitution. I have a feeling that if I
>analyzed this issue the answer would be SEXISM.
An accusation based on your "feeling" is irrelevant without such a
logical analysis. Try again.
>As for the legality issue I don't care enough to really look into it.
Then why'd you chime in? What do you think this whole discussion is
about?!
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Mon Aug 14 12:11:56 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>Women rarely become prostitutes of their own free will; it is something
>they are forced into doing by circumstance.
Source? Or is this just your opinion?
>Prostitution is not just a
>job; it is a violation of self-worth.
That's not _your_ choice, or mine, to make; it's the prostitute's.
> "Prostitution" and "freedom" do not
>go together, no matter how many excuses you make for it.
This is, as others have pointed out,quite simply wrong.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Tue Aug 15 10:43:58 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>Daron Myrick (daronm@onramp.net) wrote:
>
>: If women would learn how to communicate with men or even care these
>: days (possibly with grunts and groans) we would be able to decode their
>: output/input.
>
>If men would learn how to communicate with women or even care these days
>(possibly in whole sentences, and while not watching televised sports) we
>would be able to decode their output/input.
Nothing like meeting sexism with sexism, eh?
I'm not sure if I should be heartened by your evidence that women can
be just as prejudiced, unthinking, and insulting as men.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Wed Aug 16 13:17:33 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>Even better, let women make up their own minds without coercion of any type.
>This includes no psychological or emotional intimidation or manipulation.
>This includes encouraging all women to have a positive self-image,
>including feeling positive about their own worth as human beings and
>their sexuality.
Fine! Wonderful! That's exactly what I want! (Except substitute
"people" for "women", above.)
A first necessary step is to get the government out of personal
decisions about sexuality and control of one's own body.
> If this ever happened, prostitution of women would
>disappear overnight.
Doubtful. (And why just women? Do you think prostitution of men is
ok?) But the lot of prostitutes _would_ be much improved.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Thu Aug 17 10:57:03 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,alt.drugs.psychedelics,talk.politics.
drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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leebrown@[address elided] (Lee E. Brown) writes:
>
>I don't think that a single one of these self-appointed oracles of liberty
>and freedom would approve of determining another human being's worth in
>terms of physical attributes; fat, thin, black, white, handicapped, ugly
>(or in our politically-correct jargon, "unfortunately configured.")
True.
>Yet that is exactly the case with prostitution; the prostitute's worth is
>judged by firm boobs, a tight pussy, and youthful muscle tone.
Non-sequitor. First, you are using the word "worth" in two different
senses. While above average intelligence may make me worth more as a
software developer than some others, it does not make me worth more as a
human being.
Second, head on over to your local Royal Farms store and check out the
variety of porno mags on the shelf - there are ones that specialize in
every size, shape, color, and age of woman imaginable. I can only assume
that people who desire the services of prostitutes would be interested in a
similar variety of sexual turn-ons.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Fri Aug 18 13:33:49 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,talk.politics.drugs,alt.politics.usa.
constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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leebrown@[address elided] (Lee E. Brown) writes:
>> Isn't that something which has to come down to personal opinion? As
>>I said, there is a local woman who is suing for the right to be a
>>prostitute. She seems to think it is fun, not degrading.
>
>Ask the other women in the community if they appreciate someone
>perpetuating the notion of women as playtoys. Ask them if they think
>that's fun.
The point you miss is that is not the business of the other women in
the community if the first woman acts in a way that perpetuates the notion
that women are playtoys. (And it's arguable that she is. Playtoys don't
bring lawsuits.) Women have no more right to control the bodies of other
women than men do.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Fri Aug 18 13:40:30 EDT 1995
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drugs,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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leebrown@[address elided] (Lee E. Brown) writes:
>
>The differences are that human sexuality is NOT a sport
Sez you. Maybe others disagree. Ain't your or my buiness if they do.
>, and the use of
>another human's body is NOT a sport. Atheletes are recognized for their
>achievments as POEPLE - while a prostitute is something to stick your dick
>into.
Maybe other people have different views of prostitutes. Why couldn't a
skilled prostitute be recognized for his or her achievements?
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Mon Aug 21 12:32:58 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,talk.politics.drugs,alt.politics.usa.
constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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leebrown@[address elided] (Lee E. Brown) writes:
>>The point you miss is that is not the business of the other women in
>>the community if the first woman acts in a way that perpetuates the notion
>>that women are playtoys. (And it's arguable that she is. Playtoys don't
>>bring lawsuits.) Women have no more right to control the bodies of other
>>women than men do.
>
>The point you miss is that a RESPONSIBLE person will CHOOSE to forgo
>something that is fully withins their own RIGHTS and LIBERTIES to avoid
>creating a harmful situation for someone else.
(Lee, have you been studying at the Ludwig Plutonium School of
Capitalization?)
It is not within a persons rights or liberties to directly and
knowingly create a harmful situation for another. However, that is not
relevant to the matter under discussion here.
>Thus, what you ignore or simply fail to notice is the linkage between that
>woman's choice and the consequences it has for the other women of the
>community.
Please attempt to demonstrate the existence of this linkage, so often
invoked but never demonstrated or proven by those who wish to control the
private lives of others.
>By perpetuating the stereotype of women as sex objects, she helps to
>perpetuate the attitudes that lead to sexual harrasment and discrimination
>against women.
People who are going to discriminate against women are going to do so
regardless of the choice of any individual to sell or not sell sexual
services. The suggestion that one woman's choice to sell sexual services
results in harm to other women is specious at best.
>So, while she is acting fully within her RIGHTS,
That's all I wanted you to admit. If you want to argue that while a
woman has the legal right to sell sexual services, you would prefer it if
she didn't, go right ahead. You have every right to such a preference and
every right to express it; but you also have the responsibility to
acknowledge, and even defend, the right of the individual to sell sex.
> she has an excellent opportunity to make a RESPONSIBLE CHOICE and look
>beyond her own SELF-INTEREST.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Wed Aug 23 15:23:36 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,talk.politics.drugs,alt.politics.usa.
constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>: It is not within a persons rights or liberties to directly and
>: knowingly create a harmful situation for another. However, that is not
>: relevant to the matter under discussion here.
>
>That is EXACTLY the matter under discussion here.
Then please attempt to explain exactly how one person's choice to have
sex with another person for money directly and knowingly creates a harmful
situation for some third person.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
From tms Mon Aug 28 16:03:34 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.pot,talk.politics.drugs,alt.politics.usa.
constitution
Subject: Re: Newt wants DRUG LEGALIZATION vote!
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com> <41n79n$q7j@news.ios.com>
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I think this has long left the focus of any of these newsgroups.
Follow-ups to e-mail.
mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) writes:
>
>: Then please attempt to explain exactly how one person's choice to have
>: sex with another person for money directly and knowingly creates a harmful
>: situation for some third person.
>
>If prostitution were truly private -- two people who know each other making
>a private arrangement between themselves -- then it wouldn't be anyone's
>business but theirs. However, prostitution by nature is not private; it
>is a business, and it has to be carried on at least partly in public.
Apparently you use a strange definition of the word "private" that
makes it almost meaningless. Under your definition, if a woman picks me up
in a bar and takes me back to her place for a night of unbridled ecstasy,
that's not a "private" matter since our meeting took place in public.
Shaky, Barbara, very shaky indeed.
>Also, in the real world I doubt that very many prostitutes are in a
>position to "choose" their partners. What is making the choice for them
>is money, not what's in their heads and hearts.
So money isn't a valid reason for making a choice? If it isn't for
you, fine. But it's up to other individuals to decide for themselves if
they want to let money make their choices for them.
>The business of prostitution devalues and dehumanizes sexualilty and
>people.
An assertation you fail to back up. I can see a prostitute as every
bit as much of a worthy human being than anyone else. Why can't you?
> It is carried on in public,
No.
> and it has a subtle impact on the way
>the entire culture in which it operates perceives sexuality and
>relationships.
Please provide an argument, not just an assertation.
>: "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
>
>Most of the time people use phrases in their .sigs that have a special
>meaning to them. You just repeat words cause they look nice, I guess.
Hmm, so your commitment to peace, love and understanding is to
advocate locking people in cages (which certainly devalues and dehumanizes
them more than selling sex ever could, if the latter does at all) for
consensual acts?
On the off chance that anyone really cares about the significance of
the quote in my .sig:
A few years ago, my friend Mike and I went to a Midnight Oil
concert. The last song they did (or maybe second to last) was Nick Lowe's
""What's so funny ('bout peace, love and understanding?)" (often
miscredited to Elvis Costello, who recorded the best known version). It was
a great show, ending with one of my favorite songs. I was pleased, and we
headed back to the parking lot.
On the way to the car, we came across two guys, who had obviously
just come from the show, shouting and shoving at each other - a fight about
to break out.
Maybe they just hadn't been paying attention to that last song. I know
they heard it; might even have been dancing and signing along to it. But
ten minutes later, the meaning was forgotten.
I couldn't help it. I yelled, "HEY! WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT PEACE, LOVE,
AND UNDERSTANDING?!" The crowd cheered. The pugilists payed no attention. I
went over and tried to separate them. My friend Mike joined me. Somehow we
broke up the fight and prevented anyone (including ourselves; the pugilists
were bigger than us!) from getting hurt.
That's my contribution to peace, love and understanding, Barbara. When
I see someone about to be a victim of violence, I try to stop it. I try to
make peace when I can. If I can't, I try to defend the innocent. I've been
fortunate so far in that none of these situation have turned very violent.
And if that ain't good enough for you, frankly I don't give a damn.
>Barbara O'Brien freelance editor/writer/publishing consultant
>"Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself,
>(I am large, I contain multitudes.)" --Walt Whitman
^^^^^
If we're going to trade .sig swipes, than let me say that the only
thing large about you, Barbara, seems to be your ego. In the past few
weeks, you're asserted that your gender is better than mine, your
generation is better than mine, your sexuality is better than mine, and
that your age group is better than mine. You've asserted that you know
better than other women what is best for them.
I mean, my own ego has been accused of having a gravitational field
worthy of a large asteroid, but it pales in comparison to what we've seen
from you.
== Tom Swiss/tms@tis.com ==== "Born to die." === _I_ shot Montgomery Burns. ==
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
"Such a long, long time to be gone
And a short time to be there." - _Box Of Rain_, Grateful Dead
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